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Even if the welcome mat has not always been rolled out, immigrants have usually found their first foothold in the neighborhoods of their more established ethnic soul mates.

Irish-brogue newcomers moved into already cloverleafed enclaves of the northwest Bronx, off-the-boat Italians went into a Bensonhurst of homes adorned with front-yard Madonnas, and Soviet Jewish refugees found shelter among the knish parlors of Brighton Beach.

But such an easy osmosis does not always happen. One group of newcomers that has ended up living quite apart from its more established forerunners are the Indians who came to the United States not directly from India but from Guyana, on the northern coast of South America, and other parts of the Caribbean.

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These Indo-Caribbeans have not felt particularly embraced by the more flourishing Indian communities of Flushing and Elmhurst in Queens, nor have they made many overtures to the Indians. Instead they have cobbled together their own fragrant neighborhood of roti, saris and gold jewelry shops among the row houses of Richmond Hill, Queens.

'From my experience, we're not Indian,' said Latchman Budhai, 56, the former president of the Maha Lakshmi Mandir, a Hindu temple in Richmond Hill whose members are almost all Guyanese-Americans. 'We look like Indian, but we're not Indian.'

The comparative chasm between two kindred communities tells volumes about the complex history of Diaspora Indians. It also tells a lot about the general tango of sensitivities between longer-rooted immigrants and their raw cousins.

Historians, for example, have noted how, during the late 19th century, some German Jews, a comfortable generation removed from Europe, kept less-polished Jewish arrivals from Eastern Europe at a condescending arm's length, although many created the institutions that helped the newcomers assimilate.

Similarly, Cubans who fled the island in 1959 when Fidel Castro took power were sometimes less than welcoming to the refugees of the 1980 Mariel boatlift.

'Certainly the major impulse is to help the less fortunate parts of the community,' said John H. Mollenkopf, director of the Center for Urban Research at the City University of New York. 'But, at the same time, people giving help are the more assimilated, whereas people who need help are at the bottom and don't have the prestige and status. There's more of a tendency of the more established people wanting to distinguish themselves from the newcomers.'

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Some Guyanese talk with hurt about not quite being accepted as Indian. Mr. Budhai recalled how in 1978, his wife, Serojini, won an Indian beauty pageant but was never awarded the top prize, a trip to India, after the organizers learned she was Guyanese.

Still, some Indians think the chill is exaggerated. Uma Sengupta, a native Indian who is a Democratic leader in the 25th Assembly district, said the distance simply represents an encounter of two very different cultures. 'Even if they don't mix, that doesn't mean they look down,' she said.

Most Guyanese, and the smaller number of Trinidadians in Richmond Hill, are descendants of Indians who were brought over to the Caribbean starting in 1838 as contract laborers on sugar plantations after slavery was outlawed in the region's British colonies. The influx of indentured laborers continued into the first decades of the 20th century, and Indians eventually formed a majority of the population in Guyana, the former British Guiana, and they became 40 percent of the population of what is now the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago.

In the political or economic upheavals of the 1970's and 1980's, Indo-Caribbeans began leaving for the United States, where Indian professionals from Asia had already settled more than a decade before.

'While these two groups share a common ancestry, their historical experiences and the timing and nature of their immigration set them apart,' said Madhulika S. Khandelwal, an Indian immigrant who directs the Asian American Center at Queens College.

For Guyanese, even those who grew up with Indian grandparents who had been indentured servants, the passage of time has worn away much of their Indian cultural character. For many, it has erased their fluency with Hindi or other South Asian languages and given their English a singsong lilt and Creole dialect. Guyanese curries are less spicy, and a shop that serves the flat roti bread with various stews is a distinctly Caribbean conception.

Guyanese music, while Indian influenced, is marked by a faster West Indian style that has come to be known as chutney soca. Tofayel Chowdhury, owner of the Fabric Depot and one of only a handful of shopkeepers who came from India on Liberty Avenue, the Richmond Hill shopping thoroughfare, noted that few Guyanese women wear saris every day as many Indian women do.

Both those with Guyanese and Indian heritage are steeped in British and Hindu culture. But they pray in separate temples and play for different cricket teams. While Guyanese parents limit their children's dating choices to serious suitors, they do not insist on choosing spouses, something many Indian parents still do. Even Guyanese names are distinguishing, with common Indian first names serving as their last names because of how British planters addressed them.

The 2000 census identified 24,662 people in Richmond Hill who were born in Guyana and 7,384 born in Trinidad, and in this neighborhood the overwhelming proportions of both groups are of Indian descent. (The Census counted 130,496 Guyanese-born residents in all of New York City, but 43 percent were black, a majority of whom have chosen to live in Brooklyn's West Indian neighborhoods.) These figures do not count the large numbers of children of Guyanese and Trinidadian immigrants born here.

Racial data is particularly fluid, according to a study of Guyanese teenagers by Natasha Warikoo, a Harvard doctoral student in sociology, because Guyanese find it confusing to identify themselves as Asian but are not white, black, or Hispanic either.

In Richmond Hill, Liberty Avenue's video stores are stocked mostly with romantic musicals from India's Bollywood industry, and Ms. Warikoo said that teenage Guyanese girls particularly look 'to an Indian culture based in India rather than the Caribbean for 'authentic' Indian-ness.' But the coolness between Indians and Guyanese is apparent.

'They believe our grandparents quit India, so we are like strangers to them,' said Outar Pooran, 68 a Guyanese who is retired from a porter's job at the Giorgio Armani store in Midtown and is a leader at Mr. Budhai's temple.

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Mr. Pooran knows Indians, he said, who always speak to him with the expression, 'You Guyanese people.'

'When I speak I say, 'We Indians,' he said.

One thing Guyanese do not speak much about -- it is humiliating -- is what some detect as lingering elitism. In Guyana the elaborate Indian caste system has withered to virtual insignificance, while it has survived in India. The Indians who signed up as contract laborers emerged largely from India's working castes while those who came to New York from India in the 1960's were highly educated professionals largely from higher castes.

Ms. Warikoo cautioned that the fact that Guyanese have set up a separate neighborhood should not be overinterpreted. India, she said, is so fragmented linguistically, religiously and geographically that many subcultures here have carved out their own enclaves.

Indians from Gujarat, for example, have clustered in Forest Hills. In the past decade or so, almost 5,000 Sikhs -- native Indians with a distinctive religion who are recognizable to most New Yorkers by the turbans the men wear -- have settled in Richmond Hill to be near their main gurdwara, or temple. Still, the two communities live quite separately, people from both groups acknowledge.

Kris Oditt, the Guyanese owner of Brown Betty Restaurant, which serves such distinctive Guyanese desserts as pineapple tarts and Chinese cakes, says Guyanese have much warmer relations with other Diaspora Indians. Guyanese and Trinidadian leaders work together in an organization known as the Indo-Caribbean Federation. Mr. Budhai's son is engaged to a girl from Trinidad. Marriages with Indian immigrants from India, though not unheard of, are far less common.

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Scholars and people in Richmond Hill predict that attitudes will eventually change. Bobbie Ramnath, a Liberty Avenue travel agent, notices that some Guyanese are arranging trips to India to search for their roots. When a Sikh spiritual leader was pummeled into unconsciousness in July by a group of people who ridiculed his turban, Guyanese joined in the protests.

More Guyanese and Indian students are crossing ethnic boundaries. Priya Mahabir, a 29-year-old Guyanese senior at Baruch College, said some Indian friends have told her she's 'not really Indian, and I would be really offended by that,' but she has also formed close friendships with Indians.

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When she walks into a classroom, the first people she notices are those of Indian descent, whether from India or Guyana.

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'We call it the Indian Connection,' she said. 'I glance over at them and they glance over at me, and we exchange a smile.'

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